Episode 195: The Road Less Traveled

“My message was very clear: ‘You should be married and have a family. Why would you be traveling by yourself before that? You should wait until retirement.’ Even now my family thinks I’m nuts because I will go places by myself.”

— Meena Thiruvengadam

Meena thiruvengadam on her travels

Lots of us dream of leaving corporate life to travel the world. Meena Thiruvengadam did just that, incorporating travel into her career. But sometimes following your dream occupation means flouting expectations of what you should be doing - including expectations your traditional Indian family has for this stage of your life.

In this episode we discuss the exhaustion that can come from trying to make things work at work, the frustrations travelers of color often face, and the many joys of traveling alone.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Further reading:

Here’s Meena’s piece for The Muse on picking the right country from which to work remotely.

Study: The Black Traveler: Insights, Opportunities and Priorities from MMGY Travel Intelligence.

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Podcast extra: Here’s a snippet of conversation Meena and I had about her feelings on flying during a time of climate change, which I was curious about.

Ashley: “As someone who also loves to travel…climate change! How do you compute all that flying with what’s going on with the climate? I’ve traveled twice to England this year and I’m just so much more conscious now of what happens when I fly. So as somebody who essentially does this for a living, do you buy carbon offsets? What do you do?”

Meena Thiruvengadam: “I don't buy carbon offsets. I need to kind of research my feelings on that a little bit more, but there are a few things: Like if it's a short trip…when there are things that can be train rides, I try and take trains whenever possible. Not only is it better for the environment, it's usually much easier for me when I go on trips like this.

I will extend a trip to get more out of it if I'm going to fly - I’ll get there early and stay late - rather than just go there and come back. I think those are really the biggest things that I do. But I do think it is a problem we’re not really thinking about.

I've been invited on a few private jet trips and I'm like, this just seems really ridiculous when there is a commercial route, and there's not really a reason for this. So I try and be as conscientious as I can, but it's hard.

“I could stop flying, but that would crush parts of my soul. It would make me miss things about life. It would make me miss experiences and people. ”

I also know that if I completely cut flying, I am not going to solve climate change alone. So I try and find some balance by bringing in bus rides and train rides and making the most out of every plane flight. But I think there are going to be some larger, structural things that travel as an industry can do.”

Episode 194: How to Confront Bias

“There are thousands of biases you’re up against in the workplace. The point is to equip women with strategies and skills...so that they can keep going for it without being discouraged and pushed down by others’ bias.”

— Aneeta Rattan

Aneeta rattan

raina brands

“We were sitting in a performance review meeting...and we both noticed that every time a man was reviewed, whoever was reviewing them would round out this summary assessment by saying, ‘and he’s just a really good guy.’ And of course that’s never ever said for the women.”

— Raina Brands

In this episode my guests Aneeta Rattan and Raina Brands share ideas about how to call out bias so it can’t sit there in the background, subtly undermining our progress. This is counter to a lot of advice about women and work, which is essentially that we should work within the system itself to make work work for us.

Confronting bias can seem intimidating to many women. It means awkwardness, and making people (including us) feel uncomfortable.

But as you heard if you listened to the last show with Raina, causing discomfort is no reason not to call out unfairness when we see it. And Aneeta describes how she treads the fine line between making others uncomfortable, versus continuing to exist in a biased system.

Raina and Aneeta are both professors who run the site Career Equally. This show is full of ideas on how to de-bias your career.

I’d love to know if any of you have tried their tactics in your own workplace, and if so, what was the response?

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Episode 193: Bucking the System

“I’m sick of thinking if I just smile and grit my teeth I’ll get the treatment I should get. It just doesn’t work that way. So I’ve become a lot less apologetic and a lot more brash on these issues.”

— Raina Brands

Professor Raina Brands

I knew I wanted to talk to Professor Raina Brands when I spotted a tweet of hers last year in which she revealed that her CV contained some updated, and quite personal, information - information most of us wouldn’t reveal to an employer.

In this episode Raina discusses her project to help women ‘de-bias’ their careers, something she and her colleague Aneeta Rattan write about on their site, Career Equally. She explains what that means, why it’s important, and how we can get started. She also talks about why she decided to get personal in public and what the response has been.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Episode 192: Better in Scandinavia (re-release)

“Women are working really hard and full time, and then they’re trying to be the perfect mother and have the perfect home. There’s a lot of pressure here to have very tidy, very stylishly decorated homes, and all of that takes energy.”

— Bronwyn Griffith, Sweden

In this episode we revisit a show I first released in 2016.

The Nordic countries have a reputation for equality and excellent work/life balance. American women look enviously at these nations as they scrape together a short maternity leave or finish another 10-hour day.

But here's the paradox: there are just as few women in powerful roles in Scandinavia as there are in the US. 

In this show I set out to discover more about life for professional women in the Nordic countries. We have representatives from three of them - Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. 

You can also read a transcript of the show. 

Episode 191: Woman in Command: Life in the Army

“I was over-confident...I suddenly realized I had no idea what I was really doing when it came to leading men. Sandhurst gives you all the tools and the theories, but you have to go out there and earn the right to command. ”

— Kelly, Lieutenant Colonel in the British Army

Kelly on assignment in Afghanistan

In her early twenties, bored by her office job, Kelly joined the British Army for a life of adventure. This was just before 9/11. She’d grown up in a relatively conflict-free world. Suddenly everything changed.

Kelly spent almost 19 years in the Army doing multiple jobs in different parts of the world, including Iraq and Afghanistan. She loved much of what Army life gave her. Other things were less appealing, from sexual harassment to fellow officers who couldn’t handle women in authority...to the loneliness of being a woman in command when one of your soldiers is killed.

In this show Kelly - who asked me not to use her last name so she could speak freely - looks back on her career, what she learned, and what she wishes could have been different in the ultimate male environment.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Episode 190: Difficult Relationships: managing drama at work

“I think friendships with mentors can be tricky...Red flags should go up if you’ve got a mentor saying, ‘Oh no, you should not go in this direction, go in that direction.’”

— Stacey Vanek Smith

stacey vanek smith

Business and economics reporter Stacey Vanek Smith has not only reported on the gender pay gap and workplace discrimination, she’s experienced it firsthand. But it hasn’t put her off the workplace. Far from it. In her book, Machiavelli for Women, she explores how women can thrive in a setting that was not designed for them.

In this show - the tenth anniversary episode of The Broad Experience - we focus on a few areas that are rarely discussed, in particular the relationships women have with other women at work, and how to manage them when things get tricky. We delve into the inequities mothers face after coming back from parental leave, and our shared experience of receiving vague, discouraging and useless feedback - and what to do next.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Stacey last appeared on The Broad Experience in the episode On Confidence.