Episode 124: Fair Pay, part 2: Transparency Matters

“Younger generations have way different expectations around pay transparency than previous generations.”

— Lydia Frank

Photo by RomoloTavani/iStock / Getty Images

“Men in Iceland are used to the claims of women and support it to a certain extent. At the same time we’ve had a rather polarized debate in Iceland. ”

— Thorgerdur Einarsdottir

This is the second part of a two-episode show on women's pay. You can find the first show here. 

In this one we talk about why companies should be more transparent about their pay practices. Payscale's Lydia Frank says you don't have to brandish everyone's paychecks, but let's end the silence around compensation. It's not rude to discuss money at work - people want to make sure they're being paid fairly. And we talk to University of Iceland professor Thorgerdur Einarsdottir about Iceland's new equal pay law. It puts the onus on employers, not employees, to ensure men and women are getting paid the same for equal work.

Finally, we come back to negotiation: is it fair that women have to negotiate for better pay when studies show many of us hate doing it and fare worse then men? 

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Episode 123: Fair Pay, part 1: It Begins with Babysitting

“I found that very puzzling that most of the time mothers did the negotiating with the babysitters. But even they had biases about what to pay men and women.”

— Yasemin Besen-Cassino

Photo by SbytovaMN/iStock / Getty Images

“Female MBAs who were asking for raises just as much as their male counterparts got them far less often. ”

— Lydia Frank

Yasemin Besen-Cassino

In this first episode of a two-part show on pay we look at the pay gap, but we start a lot earlier than most people do - with teenagers. 

My first guest, Yasemin Besen-Cassino, has found a pay gap between men and women first emerges at age 14. More and more boys are babysitting these days, and lo and behold, they're paid more than girls. Surprised? So was I. Until I thought about it. It's fascinating stuff. Yasemin is the author of The Cost of Being a Girl.  

Lydia Frank

My second guest, Lydia Frank, is a VP at Payscale. We discuss the motherhood penalty, pay transparency, and why female MBAs can't seem to get a break, despite their excellent qualifications. Lydia and I will continue our conversation in part two of the show, which is out next week.

We'll also pay a quick visit to Iceland to talk about that country's new equal pay law, which puts the onus on employers to prove they're paying their people fairly. 

You can also read a transcript of the show. 

Show notes:  Here's the podcast episode on the pay gap that I recommended during the show, from HBR's Women at Work podcast. It features Professor Claudia Goldin among others. I thoroughly enjoyed the whole series. 

Here's an interview with Goldin and a video explaining her research on the part flexibility - or lack of it - plays in the pay gap.

The BBC show Analysis did a great episode earlier this year on why and how women are biased against women, and what we can do about it. Find it on your podcast app by searching for 'Analysis.' 

Here's more information on Payscale's survey that revealed female MBAs get the raise they ask for less often than their male counterparts. 

And here's a recent Financial Times article called the MBA Gender Pay Gap that backs up those findings, in which three women speak honestly and mostly anonymously about their attempts to get equal pay.

Episode 122: Leading in Faith (re-release)

“My dad’s been pastoring for 30 plus years...I never expected to be able to offer my father resources to very practically help him do his job.”

— Rebecca Anderson

Rebecca Anderson

“Can I really lead a community? Am I providing a source of comfort or strength to people in need? Am I role model? ”

— Rabbi Danielle Leshaw

Danielle Leshaw

“He said, ‘Wow, you’re a shapely chaplain!’ And it was instantaneous. I tried to defuse the situation.”

— Adrian Dannhauser

Adrian Dannhauser

With Easter and Passover approaching, I'm re-releasing one of my favourite episodes from 2015.

It's far more common than it used to be to see women in roles such as rabbi or priest. But these hard-won jobs aren't without their frustrations as well as their triumphs. In this show we meet three women. One went straight to her calling from college, the other two are career-changers. We talk about how women are viewed by the congregation, what you can get away with when you preach, and how getting ahead can still be tougher for women - even within denominations where women are accepted as leaders.

Appearance came up much more than I expected during these interviews. These women have to manage their image just as carefully as any corporate executive.

You can also read a transcript of the show. 

Further reading: Rabbi Dannielle Leshaw is now senior educator with Hillel International. 

Rebecca Anderson is co-pastor at Gilead Church Chicago, where there's a big emphasis on storytelling. 

Adrian Dannhauser is associate rector at the Church of the Incarnation in Manhattan. 

You can read more show notes at the original episode page for the show. 

Episode 121: A Book of Her Own

“Women tend to have about 15 tabs running in their brain at any one time, and sitting down and writing their book feels selfish somehow.”

— Alison Jones

Photo by mactrunk/iStock / Getty Images

Scan the business section of any bookstore and you'll see reams of books written by men, far fewer by women. In this show we talk about women as writers and readers of business books. Is it imposter syndrome, fear, or lack of time that stops women from putting fingers to keyboard? Is Lean In a business book or a self-help book? And why are female authors less likely to embrace a publicity blitz when their book is published? My guest is Alison Jones, owner of Practical Inspiration Publishing, host of the Extraordinary Business Book Club podcast and author of This Book Means Business.

You can also read a transcript of the show.

Alison Jones

Further reading: Here's the article Alison wrote for the Guardian in 2016: Imposter Syndrome and Time Issues: Why Women Don't Write Business Books.

Author Bernadette Jiwa's site is TheStoryofTelling.com.

Dorie Clark has been on the show twice and her latest book is Entrepreneurial You.

Angela Duckworth wrote Grit.

Bonus episode: Femininity and Power

“When you see the countries that have been run by women, they’re not necessarily the Anglo-Saxon countries.”

— Avivah Wittenberg-Cox

Former Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner

“I do think Latin countries have a different attitude to women in power.”

In this extra episode we're back with Avivah Wittenberg-Cox. She's fresh from 30 years of living in France, and a keen observer of how gender plays out all over the world. "Anglo-Saxon cultures do not like, embrace, or value femininity," she says. She believes Latin cultures are far more female-friendly - that a woman can be as feminine as she likes and still hold power without the blowback she'd get in a country like the US. 

There's a lot to think about in this 9-minute episode. You can also read a transcript of the show.

Further reading: From The Economist, a piece on violence against women in Latin America. 

From UN Women - Fighting Femicide in Latin America.

Catherine Deneuve and Others Denounce #MeToo Movement, via the New York Times.

Episode 120: Does Your Partner Support Your Success?

“I’m hearing that more and more, that not only is there a reluctance or a discomfort when women are making more than men in a relationship but it’s actually hurting relationships.”

— Diane Reichenberger

“I think you have to be clearer than most couples are about how are we going to manage two successful careers? What are the terms of engagement, what kind of support do we need from eachother?”

— Avivah Wittenberg-Cox

Avivah wittenberg-cox

This time we're talking about couplehood and careers. My first guest is shocked that her mentees' boyfriends refuse to marry them until they - the men - are the main breadwinner. My second guest isn't surprised at all. In this episode we talk about who supports whom in heterosexual and same-sex couples, and what that support looks like. We discuss how dual-career couples can maintain partnerships where each person gets what they want and need. And we get tips on using team-building techniques to good effect at home.

My guests are Diane Reichenberger and Avivah Wittenberg-Cox, author of Late Love: Mating in Maturity. 

You can also read a transcript of the show. 

Further reading/listening: Avivah first appeared on TBE in episode 41, Stop Fixing Women, Start Fixing Companies.

This is a great episode of the new Harvard Business Review podcast Women at Work - it's called Couples That Work. Avivah is in this one too, along with other guests. 

Here's the 2015 Work and Families Institute study Modern Families - same and different-sex couples negotiating at home.

Do Millennial Men Want Stay-at-Home Wives? via the New York Times, by Stephanie Coontz.

Fairygodboss recently did a survey on male/female couples' attitudes to money in relationships. 

Diane reichenberger (r) and her wife sharon on their wedding day with jack the dog